There is a challenge to writing the opening chapters of the second novel in a series. The early pages have to meet the expectations of those readers who loved the first installment and have been eagerly awaiting the second, but it also must be intriguing and not too alienating for someone just discovering the author’s work for the first time. Once an author is several books into a beloved series, faithful readers might tolerate a slow start to a book, and someone just picking up book four or five won’t expect to be able to jump in and understand everything. But a second book is a real test for a series, I think, to see how it can stand up, how it can draw new interest and build a single novel, even a good one, into a story that reaches far beyond its origins.
If I picked up The Great Hunt in an airport bookstore and I read the opening pages, I would definitely be intrigued. Intrigued enough to hunt down and buy the book that came before, if I could find it, and maybe even to settle for starting the second without context if the bookstore only carried the one. It’s punchy, it’s dangerous, and it’s full of interesting clues that make me want to keep turning the page. Even if I wasn’t doing it for Reading The Wheel of Time.
Hello again, dear readers! Today we are starting off The Great Hunt, I’m quite excited about this one, I must say, and I already have a feeling that this book is going get much more immersive than The Eye of the World. Which makes sense, really. Now that Jordan has laid the groundwork, he can spend some time deepening the worldbuilding, and showing us what until now has only been hints left behind closed doors.
The Prologue opens with a man who calls himself Bors standing in a room of people in black silk masks. Bors contemplates the fact that, like him, none of these people knew where they were, only that they had been summoned. And so they had come, but unlike Bors, the others were not all adept at hiding their identities, even with the masks on. Noting their clothing, their jewelry, skin, bearing, and other details, he is able to identify the origins of many of the people with whom he shares the room, some even down to their house names, he even recognizes the clothing of a Tinker. Also among the group are two women bearing distinctive snake rings; Aes Sedai, who Bors refers to in his mind as witches. He curses them in his mind, thinking of how they “sat like spiders in the middle of a web, pulling the strings that made kings and queens dance, meddling….”
Just then a chime sounds, and the doors to the room open, admitting two Trollocs and a Myrddraal. The assembled masked people draw back in fear, huddling together, even the man who calls himself Bors, as the Myrddraal looks them over with a white face that has no eyes, reminding Bors of a maggot in a grave. The Myrddraal seems to be enjoying their fear, and Bors thinks that a day will come when the Dark Lord returns and chooses new Dreadlords, and that on that day the Myrddraal will cower before them. “Before me,” he thinks, but then the Myrddraal announces that their Master is coming.
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The Great Hunt
Bors realizes the meaning of the words when he sees the air shimmer above the Myrddraal and he falls to his face on the stone floor. He begins reciting a creed on his service to the Dark Lord, full of fear and panic, and in the back of his mind another voice, another recitation, keeps popping up, one that calls to the Creator for protection from the Shadow. He shoves the voice down with an effort, reminding himself that he left that voice behind a long time ago, that he serves a new master now. And then he hears a voice telling them all to rise.
Bors is shocked; he can’t imagine any of the people in the room daring to speak aloud, but neither can he imagine the voice of the Great Lord of the Dark sounding as mellifluous as that. He looks up carefully, to see the image of a man shimmering above the Myrddraal’s head, a figure in blood red robes and a mask to match, and again the man who calls himself Bors questions if the Dark Lord would appear to them in such a guise. But he sees the Myrddraal’s fear and the only other way he can think to explain this situation is that this is one of the Forsaken, an idea that is almost as frightening to Bors as seeing the Great Lord of the Dark himself. But if it is one of them, that means that the Day of the Dark One’s return must be close, and when the figure commends them again, this time snapping, he gets to his feet.
It is then that the man who calls himself Bors notices that the figure’s hands are burned, crossed by black fissures and red between the fingers. He hesitates, thinking neither the Dark Lord or one of the Forsaken would appear in such a way, but when the figure’s gaze sweeps across him he can feel a furnace behind it.
The figure gives its name as Ba’alzamon, and the man who calls himself Bors is shocked, because he knows that as the Trolloc name for the Dark One. For humans the word is forbidden to be spoken, not as forbidden as his true name, Shai’tan, but still not to be spoken.
Ba’alzamon tells them that the building they are in stands in the shadow of Shayol Ghul, and that the fact that he can appear before them shows that his return is close at hand. He makes great promises to them, that the Wheel will be broken and the Great Serpent will die, that he will remake the world in his image and they will sit at his feet and be lords, who live and rule forever.
Then he shows them an image of three boys, first, a country boy with a mischievous expression, then a curly-haired youth who looks as muscled as a blacksmith and carries a battle axe and has strange yellow eyes, then a fair young man with red hair and eyes that shift between grey and blue, who carries a heron-marked sword. Ba’alzamon tells the assembled crowd that the one who will be the Dragon walks the earth again, and that he must be turned to Ba’alzamon’s service. He explains also that the three young men are to be part of the threads he wishes to weave in the pattern, and that they should all study them carefully so that they will know them.
Bors soon realizes that each person in the room is receiving instructions, though no one else can hear them or the person’s replies. He waits impatiently for his turn, until at last he hears his name. Ba’alzamon’s masked face fills his vision, although somehow he can still also see the room beyond it. Ba’alzamon asks if he is faithful, and Bors replies that he his, that he cannot hide from Ba’alzamon. He is instructed to return home and continue his work, and to watch for the three boys. When he asks if they are dangerous, Ba’alzamon replies that a sword is dangerous but only to the man at the point, not the man at the hilt, unless the man at the hilt is a fool, careless, or unskilled, in which case the sword is doubly dangerous to him. Then he gives Bors a third set of instructions, which makes the man’s mouth fall open in astonishment. He cannot understand the point of them, and wonders if knowing the others’ instructions would help.
Abruptly he felt his head grasped as though by a giant hand crushing his temples, felt himself being lifted, and the world blew apart in a thousand starbursts, each flash of light becoming an image that fled across his mind or spun and dwindled into the distance before he could more than barely grasp it. An impossible sky of striated clouds, red and yellow and black, racing as if driven by the mightiest wind the world had ever seen. A woman—a girl?—dressed in white receded into blackness and vanished as soon as she appeared. A raven stared him in the eye, knowing him, and was gone. An armored man in a brutal helm, shaped and painted and gilded like some monstrous, poisonous insect, raised a sword and plunged to one side, beyond his view. A horn, curled and golden, came hurtling out of the far distance. One piercing note it sounded as it flashed toward him, tugging his soul. At the last instant it flashed into a blinding, golden ring of light that passed through him, chilling him beyond death. A wolf leaped from the shadows of lost sight and ripped out his throat. He could not scream. The torrent went on, drowning him, burying him. He could barely remember who he was, or what he was. The skies rained fire, and the moon and stars fell; rivers ran in blood, and the dead walked; the earth split open and fountained molten rock….
The vision ends and the man who calls himself Bors finds that they fade from his memory as quickly as they were put there. Ba’alzamon tells him that some instructions are too important for even the man who carries them out to know them. Bors bows and the masked face vanishes.
Bors studies the images again, naming them in his mind as the Trickster, the Blacksmith, and the Swordsman. From Bors’ orders alone he thinks they could die at any time, and yet they are important enough to be made the center of this gathering. He ponders this, frustrated by the lack of answers, until a servant appears at his elbow. He realizes that the Myrddraal and Trollocs are gone, as is the door through which they entered, and there is a servant arrived for each one of the black-masked people in the room.
He is told that he can change back into his own clothes if he wishes, that no one will see him leave the place or arrive at his destination, and is then left alone. Feeling anxious, a small part of Bors whispers that even immortality isn’t worth another encounter like this, but he laughs it away. For that much power there is nothing he would not do. He takes his usual cloak from his saddlebags, fingering the white fabric and the golden starburst and red crook emblem pinned to it. And he almost laughs, thinking of the great work to be done in Tarabon, and on Almoth Plain.
Greed is such an amazing thing, isn’t it? Given how much fear the Dark One instills even in the people who serve him, it’s amazing to imagine that people who actually come face to face with him have a motivation strong enough to conquer that fear. Perhaps some of the Darkfriends in that room are more afraid of death than they are of facing even Ba’alzamon while they are alive. Perhaps others signed away their souls before they understood in their hearts what the Dark One really was, and by that time the fear of being caught turning away from the Dark was greater than the fear of staying in its shadow. But for Bors, at least, it really is greed and ambition that drive him, a desire so strong that we see him actively fighting his better instincts, instincts that recognize the danger and the horror and turn to a mantra of the Light without his bidding. Moiraine, and I think Captain Bornhald as well, have has said that there is no one so deep in the Shadow that can’t return to the Light, but I think it means something more to see it here in someone actually entrenched in the Dark, and it makes me wonder if we won’t see a redemption story of a Darkfriend somewhere in the series. It seems too important of a theme not to be addressed.
When I started this read back in February 2018, I left out the prologue to The Eye of the World for several weeks, because although it was interesting, I wasn’t sure what I could say about it from an analytical point of view. It was well written and it made me want to learn more, but it didn’t immerse me in a place and time the way this one does. I think the close point of view from Bors helps immensely with that, giving us a set of emotions to attach to the proceedings. In many ways this makes the prologue feel more like a regular chapter than something separate, and I wonder why Jordan chose to change the format this way.
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The Ruin of Kings
I assume that at some point in The Great Hunt we will meet the man who called himself Bors, but of course it will be under another name, and we, like the masked people in that room, won’t recognize him at all. It will probably be some time before that particular reveal, but every time we meet a Whitecloak from here out, the reader is going to be wondering if this is the man who called himself Bors. It’s a really great seed to be planted at the beginning of the story, and it will pay off in some great tension later. Not that I really needed another reason to feel tense when the Children of the Light show up.
I didn’t mention the creepy servants in the recap, but how about that disturbing bit of detail? Blank eyes. Empty eyes. A doll’s eyes. Eyes more dead than death. I don’t know what they did to those servants, but it might be creepier than the Trollocs. I also found it interesting that Bors was more put off by the fact that such measures had been carefully thought of by “his current masters.” I wasn’t sure what he meant by that; obviously he doesn’t think of Ba’alzamon as someone he’ll eventually find weakness in or move beyond, so I suppose he must be thinking that there is a higher tier of Darkfriends who have orchestrated this gathering and he aspires to find their weaknesses and exploit them in order to rise above them. His ultimate goal seems to be to be named one of the Dark One’s new Dreadlords, and certainly it stands to reason that not all of the Darkfriends who serve Ba’alzamon now will be granted the gifts he promises. (Or you know, any of them because why would the Dark One need, or care about, any human after he has won? But that’s another discussion.) Bors’ uncertainty when Ba’alzamon mentions the Dragon serving him in another Age is worth noting as well; a clue to the reader that these Darkfriends’ scheming and striving for this immortality is fruitless and the promise only a means to an end in which they will ultimately be discarded. I remember Gode’s “reward” all too well.
I spent some time looking at the vision Bors receives, trying to see if I recognized any of the images, but the only ones that meant anything were the obviousness of the wolf relating to Perrin and/or Elyas and the golden horn likely being the Horn of Valere being sounded, after which “the dead walked.” So perhaps the Dark One has some plan to use the Horn in his battle against the world. On my first readthrough of this chapter, I was thinking that what Bors sees is a premonition of an actual future to come, but I’m reminded on my second pass that the vision is a set of instructions, not a premonition. Given that the wolf in the vision rips Bors throat out, one wonders if Ba’alzamon’s instructions include a command that will send this man to his death, possibly at Perrin’s hands. Poor Perrin, seems that he has more strife with the Children of the Light coming his way.
Do you think Moiraine, for all her schemes and plots, has any idea how organized the other side is? Although we haven’t yet seen much of the other Aes Sedai, if she has allies in the White Tower they almost have to be few in number and status, whereas the bad guys have a centralized assembly and are well prepared to carry out active instructions. As a reader, it really ups the stakes for me to see that this isn’t just about the raw power of the Dark One and the Forsaken, not just about the temptation and fear that Ba’alzamon can instill, but also about a long and complicated plot with many threads. In the last section of the read of The Eye of the World, I said I didn’t believe Ba’alzamon’s claim that he orchestrated everything to lead Rand to him in that moment before their confrontation. It seemed like too much, even for someone like the Dark One. I still do think that it was a lie, but I will say that this prologue shows that he has much more ability to organize complex schemes that I realized at the time. I don’t think anyone fighting for the Light can have any idea of it either.
Can I just say, though, that there is something about the theater of Ba’alzamon that doesn’t sit quite right for me? I can’t put my finger on it, but it’s clear that there is something hidden about him that neither we the reader, nor the Dark One’s enemies, nor his followers, is seeing. I mean, even as I write that it feels too obvious to even say, but Bors’ questioning of why Ba’alzamon would appear human got me thinking about it. Obviously a human form that people can look at safely with their naked eye isn’t the true form of the Dark One, but I assumed it was just a convenient image projected from his prison, embodying only the barest fraction of his power. But if that is the case, why would his hands appear burned? This is clearly the damage from his battle with Rand, but for it to show in such a way means either that it is some kind of psychic manifestation of the damage that Ba’alzamon cannot hide, or that there is some kind of real physical entity at play here. Real hands with real burns? How is that possible? I don’t know, but I think it is a very important clue all the same.
During the read of The Eye of the World, some of the commenters pointed out the icons at the top of the chapters to me and suggested that I pay attention to how they relate to the chapters they precede. So far it has seemed fairly straightforward to me; a raven in the icon heralds a raven in the story, a staff in the icon turns out the signify an important moment with Moiraine’s staff, etc. But I have been making sure to look at them more closely, and the icon for this section really caught my attention.
It’s the same icon that was used before the Prologue and Chapter 1 in The Eye of the World and at the end of every chapter, but for some reason this is the first time I really looked at it. (So thanks for pointing that out, team!) The prologue’s icon is snake eating its own tail, intertwined with a wheel.
So far there have been only a few mentions of the Great Serpent by characters in The Wheel of Time, not really enough information for me to make much out of it. Of course there is some mythology in our own world that Jordan is no doubt drawing from here; the ouroboros, a dragon or snake eating its own tail, is a motif image that dates as far back as Egyptian times, and came to modern symbolism through Greek tradition, Medieval alchemy, and the tradition of Renaissance ceremonial magic. The ouroboros, generally speaking, has a meaning relating to infinity, to wholeness, and to the idea of an ongoing cycle of rebirth, without beginning or end. It is a fitting symbol for a world that exists via a turning wheel that spins out Ages and sometimes reincarnates people (or at least one person. I’m still unclear on this). That the Aes Sedai wear this symbol also makes sense, it is an image of the very thing they seek to protect, the continuation of the world, the Wheel forever turning, and the cycle unending.
The other obvious connection to real-world mythology is of course to the Great Serpent of Norse mythology, Jörmungandr, the offspring of Angrboða and Loki, whose body is supposed to circle all of the world, and whose final battle with Thor is supposed to occur during Ragnarok, when both will be killed and the world will be destroyed. Given all the talk about the return of the Dragon heralding the destruction of world, this connection makes sense, and I assumed that the Great Serpent, like Jörmungandr, circled either the world of The Wheel of Time or perhaps circled the Wheel itself, guarding it perhaps. But it hadn’t occurred to me to picture it entwined with the wheel, as it is shown in the icon here. Since it is the One Power that drives the wheel, I don’t imagine the Serpent has a role in turning it, but perhaps the Wheel effects the Serpent in some way, and its existence is more than symbolic in the fall of the world and the Wheel itself.
Given this connection to Norse myth, I kind of wonder if the Horn of Valere isn’t partly inspired by the horn of Heimdall, the watcher of Asgard, which when blown will let all the gods know that Ragnarok is upon them. I don’t remember that horn having the power to summon anyone from the grave, but given that the Horn of Valere is only meant to be blown at the most desperate hour, its sounding will very well signal the end of the world as well, or at least a strong possibility of it.
Next week I will be covering Chapters 1-3 of The Great Hunt, and we’ll be back in Fal Dara with Rand and his friends, along with a new arrival that threatens to upset everything for Rand, and for Moiraine as well. Until then, meet me down at the comments, white out your spoilers, and let me know how you felt when you first picked up The Great Hunt and saw the story continue.
Sylas K Barrett loves snakes, and he may have a new rival for his favorite piece of fictional snake jewelry, a title previously held by Aragorn’s Ring of Barahir.
Ah the infamous Dark Friends Social! It tells us three things, first there are a whole lot of Dark Friends; secondly, they are highly placed; and thirdly they are total tools. Seriously, buying into the promises of the Father of Lies is idiotic and as we will see over and over again Nothing is worth putting up with the Dark One’s management technique.
I am so so so excited that this is back. This is one of my favorite prologues (although the first really is the best) and there are so many juicy tidbits here – but it also has some great atmospheric writing and helps with worldbuilding and character motivations.
The image of the Whitecloak with his shepherd’s cloak pulling on his cloak after a Darkfriend meeting is so fitting in these troubled times. For me personally it’s a very poignant image.
Is anybody surprised that the so called Children of Light are heavily infiltrated by the Dark? It is disturbing to learn that the Aes Sedai are as well.
You know, looking back, I don’t think I understand the purpose behind //RJ making people think Ishy was the Dark One for the first 3 books.// Just a sense of mystery, I guess?
The Read is back!!
Actually the prolog serves another goal, it shows DF are everywhere, so perhaps the Whitcloaks aren’t the only ones to be worried about.
About Aes Sedai, we were told about the existance of the BA in book 1, so they shouldn’t be such a suprise.
About the Icon, this one is more of a general one, others give bigger hints about the capters.
Testing whitespace.
Redemption of a DF, there is a great scene in the series that has that topic.
re @@.-@: And in a reread the identity is obvious…
5. StefanB // I can’t wait till we get to the redemption of Ingtar. That is SUCH a great scene! // Great work on the reread so far. I agree with Stefan that the main takeaway here should be that DFs are everywhere and are not always obvious. Looking forward to the rest of the reread.
I like a lot of scenes in TGH, I am looking forward to a lot of reactions, first introduction of certain Aes Sedai (Verin exspecially) and towards a certain culture, where the old reread had some strong reactions.
Yes, the infamous Darkfriend Social. Generator of hundreds of mostly wrong theories, back in the day. I agree Friends of the Dark are everywhere and in very high places. But this prologue also contains a multitude of hints, some of which are revealed much sooner than others.
As usual, Sylas, you are very sensitive to the presence of something that will turn out to be important. Not unlike the warders ability to sense the presence of Shadowspawn…
@@.-@. Austin //It was a huge red herring. And a look into Ishy’s disturbed mindset.//
@@.-@ If the books didn’t sell well he would have been able to end the series much earlier by not having Ishy be the Dark one.
Not much to say without spoilers, but another very good job picking up on clues, Sylas. The Darkfriend Social will influence how we perceive the story for a while…
The read-through is alive again!
Not just Whitecloaks. Every time an Aes Sedai, noblewoman, tinker, etc. gave one of the three lads any kind of unusual look it increased the tension. Very effective writing tactic.
It’s interesting that in the prologue of The Great Hunt that Ba’alzamon organizes his followers to hunt for the boys.
As the horn of Heimdall can supposedly be “heard in all worlds” [Wikipedia-Gjallarhorn] and in Norse mythology, the dead simply go to another world (Valhalla, Hel, Folkvang, etc), it would not be inconceivable to think that, as you’ve pointed out, the Horn of Valere draws strong inspiration from that particular myth as similarly, “the grave is no bar to my call” [Eye of the World]; both can bring reinforcements from beyond.
Due to a negligent clerk at the local bookstore back in the day this was my first introduction to the Wheel of Time. For whatever reason TGH was split into two mini-books ( The Hunt Begins and New Threads in the Pattern, if I remember right) and he had confused those for the beginning two of the series. Still this prologue and the beginning of this book in general did well enough to update me to the story and to rope me into the series for the long haul.
Excellent recap! The Darkfriend social really sets the tone for the book and creates a great atmosphere.
Wayneman @13: Tor did that to each of the first two books to produce volumes that were a less scary size for younger readers. The first half of TEotW contained an extra prologue that follows Egwene as a young girl and gives some insight into her character. The second half of TGH has an expanded Glossary. Other than that, the texts are identical.
This prologue always gives me the shivers. It really heightens the sense of paranoia for the reader throughout the rest of the series, especially regarding Aes Sedai. Its placement is great considering the larger number of Aes Sedai we see in tGH.
Has anyone else ever thought it odd that Bors wants to be a dreadlord? Aren’t dreadlords channelers? We know from this prologue that he shares the Whitecloaks’ hatred of Aes Sedai and thus would likely be opposed to channeling himself.
As always, Sylas’ observations and suppositions are delicious.
I don’t remember my reactions to read TGH for the first time. I was probably crashing through it to get to the rest of the series available at the time. I don’t linger over books to try and tease out hidden themes or foreshadowing.
As I recall my first reaction was ‘Oh great, another travelogue and more denial.’
@16. Evelina IIRC, wasn’t it in her account of the fall of Manetheren that Moiraine identified Dreadlords as Darkfriends that can channel? Aes Sedai would know this but not necessarily anyone else. Particularly the Children.
If I’m wrong and it wasn’t in the last book, I hope the Moderator whites this out as a spoiler.
As someone who first started reading right at this point, I agree that it was intriguing and not alienating – although intrigued I already was from reading a few back-cover texts.
Why did I start by reading The Great Hunt? I’ll explain.
I had been eyeing the series for a while, and eventually bought the first three volumes as a shrink-wrapped bundle. I didn’t know at the time that in the Swedish translation each book was split into two volumes, so what I had was one and a half book. I took the plastic off and put the books in the bookshelf as a bundle. That was a mistake. The volumes were ordered so that the first one was on top when the bundle lay front cover up on a table, which is reasonable, but in the bookshelf they ended up in reverse order.
Later, when packing for a vacation, I took what I thought was the first book – the leftmost volume on the shelf – and put it in a bag. Once at the destination I started reading. First there was a prologue and then the real story began: “The Wheel of Time turns” et cetera. Not the beginning but a beginning. It certainly seemed like the beginning of a story.
Either a stranger comes to town or a boy leaves home, was it? Well, a group of Aes Sedai came to Fal Dara, and suddenly Rand was very eager to leave – not his home, but the place where he had stayed lately. [I hope that doesn’t count as a spoiler. It’s clear that Sylas has already read the first few chapters.] Past events were mentioned, but it’s not unusual for characters to have some backstory when a book begins. I got quite far into the story before I realized that the book I was reading wasn’t the first one.
So when I opened The Eye of the World I already knew that Rand is the Dragon, that Egwene and Nynaeve can channel, and that Fain is an extra terrible kind of darkfriend. I knew about Lan and Nynaeve, Perrin’s connection to wolves, Mat’s dagger et cetera. Massive spoiler. Oopsie.
Yes it is. Very important clue. :-)
I think that’s a misunderstanding. The Great Serpent is a metaphor for cyclical time (which carries with it concepts such as eternity and a cycle of rebirth), and the Wheel of Time is another metaphor with similar meaning. I don’t think the people of Randland think of the Wheel and the Serpent as two separate entities.
Maybe not the Gjallarhorn itself, but the Einherjar (fallen warriors) are supposed to march into battle at Ragnarök, so yes, there are certainly similarities.
The first time I read this prologue, I thought, now I know what Matt’s paranoia feels like. Ever new character was now under suspension of attending that party.
@Sylas re: your Norse connections…
You haven’t forgotton Rand’s last name, have you?
It is blindingly obvious, but I didn’t see it mentioned that the serpent is in the shape of our symbol for infinity. The power of The Wheel is infinite and time has no beginning and no end. Also, The Wheel has seven spokes, one for each Age.
Sylas…welcome back…I’ve been looking forward to your take on TGH…It’s one of my favorite books in the series. The prologue definitely sets the tone and really let’s the reader see how entrenched dark friends are Jordan’s world…I’m envious of you as you get to discover TWoT for the first time. Pathetically, I reread the series every year or so. Keep up the good work.
I do love this prologue chapter. First of all, while one of the themes is that Darkfriends are in all circles and locations hidden away, it’s hard to illustrate it more convincingly than a meeting where it’s made obvious that various lords, Aes Sedai, Children and even tinkers are aligned with them. Kind of like those Rand/Mat “flee to Caemlyn” parts in the first book, but with the evil people being a lot higher-up in the world than innkeepers and random townies, so you know there’s a clear and present danger regardless of how many people are around him (and even more danger the more people are around him, because as said, now you’ll be suspicious of EVERY new character introduced).
And secondly, after finding out who Bors is, it’s always fun to go back to this just to read how full of himself he is, thinking he’s intellectually a step ahead of most everyone else in the meeting and has actual Dreadlord potential.
@jcmnyu (#23):
I never understood how anyone can think they know how many spokes the Wheel has. If even the myths are long forgotten when the age that was their origin returns, then how did anyone ever count the ages?
@Rombobjorn
That is straight from Robert Jordan himself and also from the Big Book of Bad Art and the Wheel of Time Companion.
From the Big Book of Bad Art: //In this world there is no one beginning or one end, for each spoke of the great Wheel represents one of the seven Ages, receding into the past and returning in the future as the Wheel spins, the fabric of each age changing only its weave and pattern with each passing.//
From the wheel of Time Companion: Age – //The Wheel of Time is composed of seven Ages, each with its own distinct patterns; the cycle begins again once all seven Ages have been lived.//
@jcmnyu (#27)
I think Rombobjörn meant: how can anyone in-Universe know that the Wheel has seven spokes / that there are seven Ages?
Which, I must admit, is a fair question. Knowledge carried over from the Age of Legends, perhaps? Maybe they had ways of calculating it back then? But that’s just speculation, and a stretch to boot. So, yeah, a fair question.
@26 – “If even the myths are long forgotten when the age that was their origin returns, then how did anyone ever count the ages?”
That bothered me also, and even more than this was the confusion of the very first quotes in the Eye of the World:
And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.
—from Aleth nin Taerin alta Camora,
The Breaking of the World.
Author unknown, the Fourth Age
If this is the third age, how do we have a quote from the Fourth Age? I noticed this the very first time I read the book and was really confused.
@26/28 We can safely assume that at least in the age of legends this was something that was researched and some people know. Ishmael’s whole reason for being on team Forsaken is his knowledge of the circular nature of his existence. It’s safe to assume that it became widespread enough late in the age of legends and became religious dogma during the third age.
29
A quote from the future (of our heroes) is so dificult to understand?
Tecnically the 4th age begins in the last book.
I don’t think that concept is so strange.
Good catches Sylas
Two thoughts on the questions about ages.
1. the events of the book occur at the end of the 3rd Age, so publishing in and quotes from the 4th Age are entirely valid
2 Humans like to categories, so collecting History/Mythology into 7 ages is Valid as are beliefs in the immutability of the structure of time, but as has been pointed out many times in the books, belief that something is true is not evidence of fact.
As RJ said legends turn to myth etc
Here.
We.
Go.
Much as I always enjoy another deep dive into WoT, I waited until EotW was mostly done with to follow this particular reread more closely.
Impressive work Sylas. Looking forward to seeing you spin through the various webs, as the heart of this story unfolds.
grl
@31/32 – I never got the impression that the 4th age quotes are from the future. Unlike the Lord of the Rings, these books are not written as if the author is an in-world author from the future writing history.
Ah, the evil masked ball of foreshadowing. Good times. I remember trying to place every Darkfriend we ever come across to someone mentioned in the masked ball. I think I’m only lacking one person? They never did show up to be identified…
It’s just darling that Bors hates Aes Sedai for perfectly bigoted reasons and not, you know, how they’re the NUMBER ONE ORGANIZATION DEVOTED TO DESTROYING HIS KIND. That NEVER seems to cross his mind at all. Ah, human pettiness.
I love this Prologue. As the first Darkfriend POV, it’s one heck of a look into the Darkfriend experience. I’ve also wondered why people in this story turned to the Shadow, as most of them probably don’t find Shadowspawn as interesting as I do.* Greed for power and immortality, it seems here, but perhaps not always. ///It was interesting to learn about what motivated the Chosen Forsaken — varying combinations of lust for power, lust for humans, envy, vengeful wrath, desire to do certain forbidden things, etc.///
It’s also where the story’s setting begins to expand in all directions like an opening flower. TEOTW took place almost entirely in the nation of Andor, except for small portions in Shienar and the Blight, and most of its characters are Andoran by birth or residence. Here we begin to see people of other nations and learn a little about their cultures.
It’s the one time a Trolloc (or two) is referred to as “he,” not “it.” I liked that.
Neuxue amusingly summarized Bors’s visions as “a woman in white, a raven, an armoured man, a horn, a wolf, and the apocalypse.”
It amused me, and probably Bors and Ba’alzamon, that they can call nominally-Shadow-opposing Whitecloak work “good work.” The words Good and Evil are not quite the officially-designated objective descriptors here that they are in some fantasy settings.
///Bors clearly wasn’t any of the Whitecloaks the boys encountered in TEOTW, as he didn’t recognize them. But Sylas apparently didn’t note this.///
///Nah, Bors, these servants won’t be “disposed of.” They’ll forget everything, and they’re irreplaceable. Hm. Bors naturally didn’t know they were preserved Shadowspawn constructs from another Age, not humans whose souls had been destroyed or whatever, but I wonder if Jordan had that in mind at this point.///
///It’s weird to see Trollocs as an honor guard. After this, they pretty much become masses of Power fodder, and just two of them wouldn’t intimidate any competent fighter. Myrddraal become nearly as low-level to humans, but this one may have been Shaidar Haran, and in any case the DO finds the form a worthy avatar, so it’s less weird.///
*///As it turned out, a few of them do. ;-D ///
@34 They most definitely are. //I believe there are even quotes later on from Loial’s never-finished-in-series book//
I was actually kind of annoyed by the Whitecloak reveal at the end of the prologue. I felt that it turned the CotL into an organization corrupted by Darkfriend leadership, instead of giving more play to the basic human reasons such an organization can turn into a bunch of zealots. While it underscores the “they’re everywhere” vibe from Rand and Mat’s flight across Andor, I felt it created an idea that every adversary is a Darkfriend, even though I later heard from multiple sources that this wasn’t supposed to be true at all.
On reading Sylas’s summary, I noticed that // Bors actually is smarter than even some readers, including me, since he figures out that “Ba’alzamon” is one of the Forsaken rather than the Dark One himself. //
Am conflicted about potentially Spoiler-y nature of this comment. Since I’m unable to come to a judgement of my own, I hereby REQUEST THE MODERATORS to review it, and white-out anything problematic should it be there.
@kevin S. (#39)
Well, the thing is that, in Jordan’s view and world, bigotry, zealotry and extremism [the “more human reasons” you talked about] are basically the same thing as “Being susceptible to the Dark”. So, really, there is no distinction when it comes to the Whitecloaks’ corruption.
The Great Hunt of all the books in this series holds a special place in my mind. When I first started reading the Wheel of Time, I was living in a quite remote place (before the Internet, let alone online shopping) and came across the EotW quite by accident. It was only happenstance that a grocery store had the Dragon Reborn for sale, I bought it right away and didn’t realize that it was the 3rd book. I ended up skipping book 2 and reading book 3 first. Rereading the Great Hunt is still a bit weird for me.
//The Myrddraal is an earlier “model” of Shaidar Haran. (When a Fade smiles it isn’t one of the normal ones)//
I reread this series quite often. It is my favorite book set of them all. It’s very interesting to see someone’s unspoiled vew of the story as it unfolds. So many things!!
YEEEEESSSSSS
I
DID
IT!!
I FINALLY caught up with you guys. *doing a step dance (although I don’t know how)*
BWAHAHAHAHA What a releaf! or… no.Wait for it. Now I’m actually more excited… Sylas, this is great! I was so dissappointed to have missed the rush of Leigh’s reread that I’m happy I won’t miss this
Now *rubbing hands together* for my first whited out question to you guys – //Who the heck killed Azzmodean? Who damn it, WHO?// (sorry if I’m overexcited, I’m just, this is just great!)
Sorry 34, gets no answer from me, because this one is quite a headscratcher for me.
Re 44: That question will be answered in the series, if you have finished the last book, and missed it, ask again.
About the whitecloks you all react if Bors beeing a WC proves that they are all curupted DF. It doesn’t. We have one (proven) DF in a big organisation. Pretty much every big organisation (with a few exceptions) in Randland has DF in it. It makes the WC more normal than completly evil
@45- “Re 44: That question will be answered in the series, if you have finished the last book, and missed it, ask again.”
I’ve read it, and didn’t know it was answered, so I’m asking you or someone else to give me an answer I was waiting for several books.
This post contains spoilers in White don’t reed if you haven’t read at last the second to last book.
Greandal, look at Towers of Midnight, the Glossary stated that she was his murder, was stated not 100% clear that she was the murderer in the novel also.
Hello, Google has added links to these articles in my daily news feed lately (The AI weaves as the AI wills…)
Forgive me if I missed it, but what is the purpose of these articles? They are a great read I’m sure, but they are loooong. Slogging through my first pass of Wheel of Time absorbs so much of my leisure reading budget already. Are these articles mainly summaries? Or do they dive deeper into exposition or thematic analysis, etc.?
If the latter, as a suggestion, it would be helpful if the summary and analysis were broken out into separate sections. Then those of us short on time with the plot points fresh in mind could skip to ponder the larger meanings and critiques on our real life.
Thanks!
Garett: They are a lot of people here who like the articleseries.
To long to read is a criticisem on a webside of a bookpublisher, that is hilarios. (exspecially since it concerns The Wheel of Time)
I give you that the break between sumary and anylisys could be more visible than it is here (there is a 3 linesbreak but this isn’t as visible as it could be)
@38 Regarding Bors //the red crook on his golden starburst reveals him to be a Questioner and one of high rank. In an organization of zealots, one would suspect that the section of that organization devoted to torturing prisoners just might be particularly susceptible to the lure of being a Darkfriend.//
About 50:
Yes he is a questioner, and I ask myself, If we ever see a questioner in the whole series who isn’t a monster. Some WC redeam themself, I don’t think any questioner does.
@@@@@ 48 Garet G
These articles start with summaries and end with (pretty damn good) analysis. I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to divide them up into sections, but I really don’t think the majority of the people that follow this wish these articles were shorter. Longer, if anything! Beware of whited out spoiler comments in this thread if you haven’t finished the series.
@@@@@ 34 Agree with others that the 4th age quotes are 100% from the future. The main events of the series occur in the 3rd age.
@@@@@50/51
Yeah I don’t think any questioners get redeemed in the whole series. They’re all darkfriends or close enough it doesn’t matter, in RJs view, I think. But at this point in the series, I don’t think it was blindingly obvious he was a questioner. You would need to pay serious Sylas-like attention to catch that.
@35
I think that’s mainly his Children persona coming out, looking at the Aes Sedai like one of those people would. Kind of like how his initial reaction to seeing the Dark Lord and praying to him was to start thinking a prayer for protection against the shadow before catching himself and remembering that isn’t him anymore. Kind of the theme that he’s been serving the Light to some degree as a Child, but now the Dark Lord has come to force him to take up those vows. He’s serving a new master, but his old prejudices don’t get changed from “those meddling witches” to “those sorts would put me down like a dog!!!!” immediately.
@52. Understood. That’s why I whited it out.
Another thing I thought of:
Those who fight for the Light really really want to believe that any darkfriend can choose to return to the Light, but they have limited knowledge. Those who know this matter best are the darkfriends themselves. “Bors” seems convinced that there would be dire consequences if he would try to renounce the Dark. He says that he can’t hide from Ba’alzamon, and Ba’alzamon agrees as if stating a simple fact. This suggests that a redemption of a darkfriend would have to come at a terrible cost.
@55, The catch is few people who’ve gone deeply to the Dark side WANT to come back. They are much more likely to make excuses and stay where they are. Redemption is hard work. Repentance doesn’t come free. And it might not be survivable.
I too read The Great Hunt first. In fact, for some reason I ended up reading the second book first of both the Wheel of Time and the Sword of Truth series. It didn’t slow me down much, although it took me an oddly long time to go back to the Eye of the World, so much so that, when I reread the series years later, I didn’t remember the first prologue at all. At any rate, when I checked out TGH from the library, I was young enough that the librarian kindly warned me that it was a complex series with a lot of characters, and I might get confused about who was who. I confidently told her I’d take notes if I needed to, and I remember I actually did write down a few notes about Bors. After that, though, I got sucked into the story and didn’t bother.
Definitely need to keep one eye on those Norse references…;)
moderator/someone, for several days I’m trying to write posts, and they don’t come up, so I try to make them about 200/300 character count and only then does it pop up. Even posts with 600/700 don’t come up. I want to write a posts without cutting it to pieces or laying it heavy on the readers with 4 or 5 posts
@47 – Stefan B -thanks. But that actually raises the second question – why? //from what we saw the whole series forsaken didn’t kill each other just because of a grudge or for sports. they even had a deference to each other, and even one who knew was stronger was careful with the other, as they all are veterans and could have some tricks up their sleeves, So even if Greandal is stronger, it is not like her to kill him. Even if it is to please the DO. If she did it for DO she would boast about it in the books telling the other forsaken (or in her thoughts of narative) that she was the one who took out a traitor, and that the DO will make her the “name ahh something” , you know the “second in command”. Also it would be much more like her to use him and blackmail him knowing she can kill him and being a spy for her against the Dragon Reborn and co. //
//So what’s up with that? This hushed up conclussion of Azzmodean, his betrayal and his downfallI is still to weird the way I see it. For it to show up in the glossary about 5 or 6 books later as just a infodump? this is a big thriller in the book, and giving us just that? Sanderson in an interview was asked if in his 3 books will there be an answer for this question. He said yes, and that’s the way he delivered it?//
@58: The limit for comments is 13000 characters–if you exceed that length, you should see a pop-up message explaining the issue. It sounds as if you might be encountering some other problem, though, since 600/700 word comments won’t put you anywhere near that limit. If the problem continues, you might want to reach out to the webmaster[at]tor.com account with a description of your problem, what browser and platform you’re using, and any other information that might be helpful so that they can look into it.
Re 59,60:
I don’t know the why, but oportunity and Asmo was a traitor.
Somewhere else it was mentioned that some forsaken tend to kill those, which how they work together, who are not usful any longer.
The answer was not only in the Glosarry, in the epilogue Shadar Haran stated that Greandal was responsible for the dead of 3 forsaken (Messana and Aran’gar were know to the readers). So the answer was in the book, just so that it could be missed (I was to lazy when you asked to search for it, sorry)
About motives I don’t know, I see Greandal as more selfish and wasteful as you do. (She is one of the main users of compulsion and this is really use and then trow away)
Who did you believe was the killer, I was in the (for the mainstream more fringe) Taim did it camp, but I was after TPoD or even WH that I thought about that more closly.
And I can beat strange readings, my first part of WoT was the german book 12 (ak the 3rd and last part of book 5, I did buy the books up to 20 in a very strange order and in two different languages (The Eye of the World was the first big novel I did read completly in English and this one or the 3rd I bought in Isreal) I think parts of book 4 were the last I did read,
@37 – I understand why some people believe that the quote attributed to the 4th age is from the future, but it does not make sense to me that a story with the possibility of blinding the eye of the world and ending time itself would have a quote from the future. That would take away all possibility of a bad ending.
I chose to believe the quotes from the books are either prophesy or history that are available to in-world characters – even if the reference to the 4th age did not make sense to me. Perhaps the 4th age reference was a historian with a different system for classifying ages or truly was from the previous 4th age.
@63 – “The Eye of the World was the first big novel I did read completly in English and this one or the 3rd I bought in Isreal” In Israel? What you mean in hebrew? So you read it in german, english and hebrew?
@61 – moderator, thanks, thought that was not the problem (meaning I didn’t get a respond that I overstepped 1300 characters) but in other articles I could answer today as much as I needed, so my problem happened to be just on this one here, and the 2 former chapters.) , but if it continues I’ll check with webmaster as you suggest, so thanks again.
Concerning the 7 ages. //We know from Raven’s prologue from Tam that in the distant past just before Lews TT there where flying machines. Than there was the war and at the end was the breaking of the world and the DO imprisoned. Before the war we know from Rand/LTT that the chanelers were at their peak of finding and creating great stuff with the OP. So if Rand’s story is 3rd age. then 2nd would be the finding of usage of the OP, while the 1st the closest to our reality with high tech, but no powers? Do you guys agree, and also do you have ideas concerning the other 4 ages that advance civilization, but at the 7th erase all that to start with the 1st again with no powers and no memory of it til discovered in 2nd?//
@64 – If future 4th Age quotes bother you, you could consider them as being from a past 4th Age.
I also can’t post longer comments
I’ll try breaking it down in smaller pieces.
concerning the 7 ages. This was my theory in 2009. I have not looked back at it with the new information of the new books so some things may need to be changed
///As time is circular I will start with the second age and finish with the first.
Second age:
What is called the age of legend. There is a high level of technology, both woman and man channel, and the DO prison is intact with no fighting and war. Near the end of the age, the bore is drilled, which result in people knowing the DO and the beginning of fighting and war. In the end the prison is patched and the world is broken.
Third age:
The age of the story. There is no technology, only woman can safely channel, the DO is well known with the patch in the process of breaking and a lot of fighting and war. Near the end of the age, Saidin is cleaned and the patch is redone much better with the help of both men and women.
///
continued
///Fourth age:
the level of technology start low but steadily increases. Both men and women can channel. The DO is well imprisoned but people still remember well and there are still fighting around (formation of new countries).
Fifth age:
The level of technology and channeling ability is high again, and research well established. Creation of the portal stones and discovery of the ‘finns in another dimension. Through research, a method for permanently fixing the DO prison is found and implemented. The result is the sudden lost of channeling for both men and women and a cataclysm similar to the breaking that destroyed knowledge and technology.
Sixth age:
no or low level of technology, nobody can channel. Eventually the knowledge that channeling used to exist is forgotten, the memory of DO is fading but there is still low level of fighting among people. ///
continued-end
///Seventh age:
Our age. Start with low levels of technology but steadily increases. Channeling is completely forgotten and no memory of the DO. But as is current, fighting still exist. Near the end channeling is re-discovered.
First age:
pre-age of legends. Technology level continue to increase, both men and women channel and through both technology and the channeling ability, most problems of life are solved (poverty and disease) and fighting and war slowly disappear.///
@70 //I’m pretty sure that we’re meant to be in the First Age right now. If Rand’s Age is the Third, and the Age of Legends is the second, in The Shadow Rising, Tom Merrilin says the oldest tales he knows are from “the age before the age of legends” and are about Mosk and Merk and Anla and Elsbet Queen of All, which are all references to our current time. So that would put us in the age before the age of legends, ie: the First Age.//
@71
//Obviously your guess is just as good as mine. But to me the difference between our age and the age of the legend was too great and so made sense to have one age in between. Also not all characters are always right. In fact it is a theme in WOT that the knowledge of the characters is often flawed. In this case Thom would be close, just missing by one age. :). //
@69 // I’m pretty sure the DO’s prison is sealed-like-new at the end of the series. So something else would need to remove the ability to channel. Genetic drift? //
Much has been said, in black type and white,so I have little to add. I’ll just say this: if you want to anger the Aes Sedai, just keep calling them “snake rings”.
@65: I bought the english version in the country of Israel, only reading in English and German (It actually was for me the beginning of reading stuff in english), after TPoD completly in English because I had no patience to wait half a year to get 1/3 of the book and not paying much less.
@35 care to share your list? for me at the social it was basically (on re-read).. //Hi Ingtar!// Was //Verin// there? Are the descriptions given enough to identify if they were?
@The.Schwartz.be.with.you (#58)
I intermittently, and without much (if any) in the way of having a pattern to it, get a similar issue.
What you can try to do is write a short placeholder comment first [something like “I’m going to edit this” or something], then click on the “Edit” button and replace it with the actual, longer comment you intended to write. I find that this works for me.
@ StefanB
// According to some sources earlier iterations of the story didn’t have Graendel as Asmodean’s killer at all. Most popular fan theories at the time blamed ‘Taim-endred’ when it was believe that Taim was Demandred masquerading as the former false Dragon.
Seethewertzone.blogspot.com/2015/12/22-year-old-wheel-of-time-mystery-solved.html – Although admittedly even this post and the Reddit post it links to are short on what might be called hard evidence.
Worth a read though.
//
Sorry, link removed to avoid potential spoilers. should work in the address bar though for anyone interested.
adjbaker@64:
The tension in this story doesn’t come from whether Team Light will win or not. When this series was started, Epic Fantasy was in a different place. There was never any chance that Rand wasn’t going to either destroy or re-imprison the Dark One. That’s not how epic fantasy worked when this series was conceived. I still can’t think of a good example of this kind of epic fantasy where there is good and evil, and the good guys don’t win. That’s just not where the tension comes from.
The tension in this series comes from not knowing what the cost of that salvation will be. Both to our main characters, and to the world at large. So, while the 4th Age quotes in The Eye of the World and The Great Hunt let you know that, yes, Rand defeats the Dark One and the world goes on, it doesn’t tell you what the cost is. What they do is increase that tension, with language that hints at how terrible the Light’s victory might have been.
@78:
Pretty much all white text.
// Yes, that is a popular theory, especially now that RJs notes revealed that Taimandred was a real thing that he changed. But whether or not he changed Asmodean’s killer because of fan’s twigging to the Taimandred theory too early is just speculation. We’ll never know. There isn’t a good logical reason to change the identity of the killer, because Minion-Taim works just as well as Taimandred as a reason to kill Asmodean. You could just say that Asmodean was in on the Taim plot. So, maybe, maybe not. //
@79 Anthony Pero Well done!
78:
I know that Demandread and Taim were original the same person. I didn’t know that my loonly theory was the original plan, thanks for the link.
@76
Completly revealed was execpt Ingtar, Alviarin later. The second Aes Sedai was Liandrin I think.
The one from Tear should be Weiramon, the Oficer from Andor Hanlon or the guy Mat chased in book 3
No Idea about the rest. Hope that helps a bit.
I’m not the only person in this thread to have done this, apparently: TGH was my first wheel of time book. Purchased immediately before a vacation, I didn’t realize it was part of a series, and the prologue set up all of the evils for me, without suggesting any of the evil characters would have POV chapters later. I found it essential, at the time.
Excited to see how the rest of the book grabs you.
The wheel being a symbol of time is something I learned of as an Irish legend that[to paraphrase it]: time is a wheel that turns & sometimes you are on top, but it also drags you down into the mud & you have to keep clinging to the wheel & wait for it will eventually bring you back up & into the sunshine again. I heard it a long time ago & it was told to me by someone who did a MUCH better than i ever can
!!!
Sounds like a take on the medieval trope of the Wheel of Fortune.
@35 – that actually is kind of funny. Most Whitecloaks hate Aes Sedai for their channeling, wich is a thing of the Dark One (in their opinion). But…he is a Darkfriend so he shouldn’t really hate them for that, lol.
Reading this 2 years after Sylas’s review and all the comments, but hey. Better late than never.
So really more so note to self than anything, as I doubt anyone is reading this still in 2020.
Great piece of writing. In general Jordan’s prologues are fantastic. I loved the first one and this is no exception. It sort of sets the mood for the book. And the mood is grim.
Also…Sylas is right. I will now try to see Bars in every. single. whitecloak. And it is going to be soo annoying, I can just feel it.
Needless to say, strong LOTR vibes here. Very strong.
Let’s get this thing started.
Roman